FREEFORM
MAGAZINE
PRINTED IN THAILAND
Vol.2 Issue 13
COVER STORY
interviews;
Cedric Morisset
The Man
The Exhibition of the Place & the Plate at The Jim Thompson Art Center seemed to demonstrate a culture ties between Thailand and France and also between the past and present, from elegant to basic, from food to design and lastly, the differences in both cultures. The exhibition is the mixture of displays and interior design and many more varieties. The person behind this exhibition is a young man named Cedric Morisset. It is a great honor for Freeform Magazine to have had the interview with him.
After a rest with the afternoon snacks and tea, Cedric Morisset began a conversation with his warm smile and a polite sentence “Sorry for letting you wait; now I’m all yours”.
Cedric Morisset
First question how does this Exhibition came about?
My very first idea was that, I know a lady who is the head of French culture for at least three years. She asked me to help her with the idea of promoting France in Thailand. Last December, I came to Thailand to plan a location in Bangkok and to see where we can exhibit and to understand more of the Thai culture. As you know, you cannot just take your exhibition to any country without knowing about that country. Therefore, I began my research on the location, meeting people and try to understand and find the ties between France and Thailand. So this is how this exhibition came about.
Why is your idea based on Food?
Well, because I think food is the main theme and it can mould these cultures together and it is easy. You don’t have to explain in plain words. There is no language barrier. Instead we exchange the tastes of food. It can tell many things and experiences at the same time and Thailand is a place that is obsessed and devoted to food, just as France. So, it is clear to me that we have to do something regarding to this. But I will not be talking about cooking, kitchenette or food preparation. I want to elaborate on product designing, which is the thing that you can place your food in. Because it is a main proof which ties our history to culture. It is an interesting relationship and very impressive.
The product is the thing you place your food in it right?
Yes, such as plates, cups, and glasses, or even the thing you use for cooking such as the lemon squeezer. (The one that they brought here is very famous; it is an icon of world class design now The Juicy Salif of French Picasso in design world : Philippe Starck) or the nut cracker and wine opener. These are what we brought on display.
Why are you interested in Thailand?
Like what I’ve said at the very beginning, Thailand and France are linked in food and that is my main idea and another thing is a culture of using tableware such as glass or any tableware that came to Thailand. In France, we don’t have the same culture but we use the same custom practice in one way or another. One thing that is clearly shown is the using of a fork. Why? It’s because when King Rama V visited France in the 19th Century, he brought back the technique of using fork to Thailand. It is very important for me to say about culture and traditions and different ways of eating. Everything became a tradition and legacy which links to the past.
When did the French start using fork?
In France, the using of fork came about in the 19th Century. Before, there is no fork, people eat with bare hands or knives. When they are invited to a feast, they are using their own knife to slice the beef and use their hand to feed. There might be a spoon back then, but there is no fork because a fork is considered to be evil in Christianity and also has a very perverted meaning. That’s why it is banned, but it came in the 16th century, thanks to the Italian. (Laugh). All of these are the changes and the flow of culture. It may have changed again or the French may have to use chopsticks one day. (Laugh)
You are interested in blending and changing the tradition.
Yes, these blending are interesting. I think Thai and French have many things in common that we can share and create an idea together. I think I have learned many things about Thai food culture and roadside food stalls. This, we don’t have in France.
Did you know that our roadside food stall must be inspected by the municipal police and certain Division to get rid of any illegal selling? This is a problem that we still cannot solve.
What will the visitor gain by attending the show? Is there a free tasting?
No! No! There is no cooking everyday. The visitors will only get to taste the food on the opening day. Other from that, they will get to see the gathering of many different kinds of products. We have brought in over three hundred designed products from France. Mostly is tableware. There is also a personal collection of Thai porcelain which belongs to Jim Thompson and is on display. There are also many old French craft products from Andrée Putman. A very strong mixture of music, videos and correspondences are on display. We have chosen a Thai contemporary artiste Mr.Wit Pimkanchanapong to create and design the display.
For the visitors who came on a later date who didn’t have a chance to try the food, they won’t be able to feel the taste.
What idea you have in mind of arranging your display? Because from what we’ve noticed, some displays are placed outside and some are on the glass shelves. Is that because they are of high value?
Yes, absolutely. First, there is the security procedure. Many items are of high value and some are very fragile and some are limited handmade pieces. These are the main reasons. And another reason is we like our displays to be placed on a huge table which is made up from different sizes of boxes in the middle of the room. As for the display in the glass shelves, other than the security, we want to emphasize the difference in quality of products, because some of the displays outside is less value and are machine-made (only items such as pots and stainless steels are on display) like vacuum pots.
So expensive items are in glass shelves and the cheap items are outside.Actually, no. Sometimes, we also swap them around (Laugh). Some displays on the glass shelves are not that expensive and are manufactured from factory. However, we want to base on the quality of the displays, because even though they are machine-made, they are things we used to prepare food, they are useful, and beautiful. I want to show the elegance of its function. The arrangement on the glass shelves is to bring out its beauty and value even if they are cheap and factory made.
This exhibition is based on Art or Design?
It is more of the product design. Of course, the environment is similar to the Art Exhibition, but the heart of the idea is designs, designs, and only designs!
In your opinion, what is the difference between Art and Design?
This is a question that most of the people in the world are asking. What is Art? What is Design? Everybody talks about it a lot. I’m also curious that sometimes this question seems to be meaningless. But if you ask me, when you talk about designs, its functions and beauties are all important. But in Art, the most important thing is… umm… the personal expression of an artist, which is not necessary factor in designing. These might be the differences in the two things. But at the same time, both Art and Design may have the same factors. Why not? I don’t want to question on what Art and Design is. And sometimes, they can’t be separated and I think that isn’t the problem.
Thereby, the frontier of Art and Design and everything else is beginning to fade away.
Yes, it’s fading away, flexible and assembles together but design has the basic element in its function. If it doesn’t function, then perhaps it is not the design work. Design work is meant to be functional, even if it made to be a collection, expensive or limited. As long as it is functional, it is still a design work.
If talking about function for example, the famous Juicy Salif* of Philippe Starck. It is beautiful but a number of people are saying that it’s not functioning well. What do you think?
True, it’s not working properly but still functional. As you know it is meant for squeezing lemon and it worked. This is the heart of it. Many people may question that is it a good or bad design but no doubt whether it is art or design, because in the end it is a design work.
Therefore function must come before beauty.
When you start to design, you may express yourself in your work but you must answer the question and find explanation of your work, either on its look or function. You don’t have to answer these entire questions in art. You just express yourself. It’s a different aspect. So this is why we can differentiate the work of art and the work of design.
But Designers today present themselves or are being introduced by any media as an artist. Like Philippe Starck or Tord Boontje. They are becoming artists now.
It is true. Philippe Starck, Marc Newson or any others present themselves like that. I’m not against them but I think they are being labeled that way by Art Gallery, Museums, Press or Art world. Because I’ve been in many similar exhibitions, for example, I’ve been to a Cooper Hewitt Museum in New York and it is very cool. It linked the designing of the past and future together very well. This is the show of Art design. But I’m not sure that I’ interested in this kind.
Why are you not interested?
Well, some is interesting like Milan International Furniture Fair. A world class of furniture designs being held every year in Milan, Italy. It is a large installation show by the designers from Studio Job. For the gallery in New York, it is acceptable by most people in the world with leading designs. But I think it is quite odd to me because they made these work for collectors only. I think that’s not an expression of a designer.
Do you mean that it is not functional?
Yes, it has no function at all. It’s just like a work of sculpture. OK! Why can’t designers design good quality sculptures? And I don’t want to decide weather it is Art or Design. Actually, I don’t even care, if they could sell, it’s ok. But in my thought, that’s not an expression of a designer.
Are there any new French designers that you think are interesting?
Of course there are. In the Milan Fair, I have gathered “60 French Designers to coordinate with Milan’s manufactures”. Some of them are as famous as Philippe Starck and are acceptable worldwide. Like Ronan+Ervan Bouroullec who has worked with many world class brands such as Vitra or Mattali Crasset which are well known. She has designed many world class hotels and restaurant. There are many others like Patrick Jouin, who was the first to make chairs from Rapid Prototyping method (a method of quickly creating mechanical components, especially those with complex shapes, from a computer-based drawing that can be used to check the validity of a design). This is a very fascinating work and creates an amazing work in the design world. He also designed nice interior decorations for many places.
France has many outstanding designers.
Yeah. But most of the problem for the French designers is that we have so many well known brands everywhere. Most designers are hired by those companies to design products for them. For example, a perfume bottle or other things which make them earn money. And when they have the time to design furniture and interior design to make name for themselves, but the problem is that France doesn’t have many furniture factories, so they turned to design for Italian firms instead.
Except for Philippe Starck, why are French designers not well known compared to other European country?
I don’t know. It’s true that Philippe Starck is well known in the world but I think Bouroullec Duo are as famous as him. The Design Centre in Thailand also has many of his work. He may be less known in Asia, but he is very famous in Japan. I don’t know. I think Philippe Starck, Marc Newson or the Campana brothers are well known due to their publicity. This, you must give credits to the Arts world.
Besides food, what other ideas you get from other source?
Sure. We have another idea to present the historic view on the industry of high-class tableware in France which has been around for a long time. It began in the period of Louis 14th. He is the first to create tableware for the Royal Household in the 17th Century and continues until today. The factory is facing a tremendous crisis today and must find a way to overcome this crisis. So they began to collaborate with new and well known designers and this is what I want to stress, so you can see how the old tradition of design can meet with today’s contemporary designs. It is interesting to see how it will be combined.
How is the situation of craftsmanship in France?
Really, it’s bad. We can’t compete in many ways. It is very competitive with Asia, especially with China and their labor cost. Skilled workers in France are much more expensive than China. Therefore in some viewpoint, they either die or fade away from the system. Because of that, it is difficult to maintain the pattern of tradition and the know-how. But we are still lucky that we still have a large skilled factory to conserve this magnificent knowledge, because there might not be anyone who knows how to create glassware as good as Baccarat Cristal or Crystal De Sèvres or Crystal Saint Louis.
Other Places cannot do this, is it a national secret?
Because these companies have much know-how that no one can imitate it. You have to spend long years of learning the skills. If you are new worker in these companies, you may have to spend at least 20-25 years to learn everything in details or maybe you may spend years of learning one technique to get it right. And even the best porcelain from China that has good quality of clay and light transparency as close as ours, but it is in no way to compare the quality of colors from these factories. They specially used a fine quality of colors called Bleu de Sèvres. It is a rare blue color that is specially formulated and very expensive and beautiful in appearance. The learning of making this color will take years of experience to develop. It sells in all over the world and no one can imitate it. It sells in Russia, Japan, and Taiwan and even in Thailand. The color also has a connection in the Art world and artist like Jeff Koons or many more in the design world.
To compare with Thailand, skilled work businesses haven’t developed and grown much. What we see is only the OTOP which is not very clear at the moment if they would survive because there are so many problems. Comparing with France, what factor do you have in order for these skills to stay and develop stability although you are facing crisis? Is it because of the support from the government?
For the designers, actually, we have an organization and it’s a public organization supported by many furniture companies. These companies paid taxes to the organization that worked with new innovation. Every year, they give out research funds to the designers to try out new things in design. Yet, they also arrange exhibition to other country to show their work, especially in Italy, like the Milan Furniture Fair. They had spent time exhibiting in many countries of the world, which is the institution that is really strong and important to us designers. The French designers are not getting much support, unlike in Netherlands, which designers received large funds from government. Sometimes, it can’t really sell (laugh) but the government still supports them. Maybe it’s just a try out and sometimes, it’s interesting because it is a work of Art.
Which important factor does France pay more attention to; Art or Industry?
We too are more interested in industrial work, so we went to get involved with the industrial design in Italy. And this is the reason that most of the French designers work with Italian companies. With this, designers give help to the designing profession of craftsmanship at the very beginning. But, they too, must fight for themselves, which will create a strong company at the end. The designers and those companies must fight for their business contracts in order for their companies to survive. If any company is not strong enough, they will be out of business. Back in our country, we don’t have a very luxurious factory; all we have is huge perfume industry. However, we also have many decorating businesses. Thereby, the thing I want to show in this exhibition is to bring forward skills with creativity and build a new contemporary style.
So this is why France produces so many designers in the world?
Right, another thing I wanted to show in this exhibition is a specially set format on the interior design from French designers. They are quite well known in their profession. They had designed hotels, bars, nightclubs and restaurants worldwide. You can see them on the slide show presentation at the exhibition and it’s just a few parts that I can bring to show you, because I think they have special senses in organizing the area and Philippe Starck is the best example of that. He knows how to utilize the area and present with an outstanding look. He may have done this better than designing a product and there are many more designers who are also well known. What interesting is that, in the cooking world, designers and chef would collaborate to create and work together in a worldwide project. The collaboration of the two fields is interesting and I can say that the result bears its own trademark of France, because no other country has ever done this.
You called this exhibition a product design exhibition, but you have invited artists such as Mr. Rirkrit Tiravanija or Ms.Pinnaree Sanpitak to display their works.
Yes sure, it has a link to it. I think it is a good idea. Even though in the world of design or product design, sometimes it can be “DRY”. Do you understand what I’m saying?
Do you mean “STILL”?
Yes, it’s just a utensil and it’s hard to get attention from people. This is the reason that we must bring in arts to get their attention because the work of arts also has something to do with food and linking them together is quite interesting. Mr. Rirkrit is a well known artist in Europe and America and I think it is very challenging to be able to bring the two together. Surely it doesn’t concern directly with design, but it’s all about food which leads from product design of France to French food. And from French food, it leads to Thai food and that leads to Thai Arts right? (Laugh) It is a way to see different things, hence it may not have anything to do with each other but at some point it does and it creates an overall good impression to the viewer.
This kind of mixture must take a lot of effort.
Yes it does, because it cannot happen easily in creating a strong theme covering design, foods and arts. And in the end, it is up to the viewer to make their own thoughts and comments of the “HOW” and “WHY” (laugh) and there might even be an argument and conversation (Laugh).
Beside food activity, there isn’t any art work of an artist on display.
Not quite. It’s not our idea. In this Exhibition, it is important to show how things are linked together and differentiate between them. But the main thing I’ve said, it shows the work of design. It is a way of thinking and seeing a different aspect of the show. Like we had Andrée Putman’s views, which is very different. It is like his personal cabinet and it also had other views. How it will combine and reflect these views. Like we also had a benjarong porcelain placed on a modern set of plates. Quite interesting, isn’t it? This Exhibition has persuaded us into something called Decompartmentalization, which means to destroy all boundaries. It is like opening up a box. This Exhibition has broken those boundaries of things, arts, foods and designs. Even though we had emphasized on design but we’re not shutting ourselves from other outside influence, whether it is arts or anything.
People who didn’t attend on the opening day must feel regrets.
I didn’t say that. Sure it is fresher on the opening day but I don’t think it is any regret because the show is always new and fresh. We could have a cook to demonstrate in the show but we can’t do that throughout a month or two. It’s impossible. Anyway, you will get see many things, meet lots of people, watch video and listen to music. You can also see a world class design up close. You will get all of these from the show.
You’ve gone through many utensils design from France. What do you think about Thai design?
Umm….. I’m quite amazed. You use fork and spoon which is a trait of Asia. I think it’s amazing. Most utensils are stunning. It has its own identity and at the same time, they look ordinary but conceal something in it. Two days ago, I had a dinner at the roadside stalls. They served the food in very colorful plastic plates which reflect light. They look so ordinary but are beautiful. With a mixture of those colors, that makes Thailand a very colorful country.
You are very optimist in looking at us.
Really, you have a different color for each day of the week and it is quite a trait. I cannot find this anywhere in the world. If you are born on Monday, then you are yellow and if you are born on Tuesday, you are orange, right? Each of the day has its own color and that also has effect on food and utensils and everything. It’s weird and amazing. It also has effect on everyday living. Even on the dining table. Thai people tend to share food on the table. Unlike in France, each would have his own dish. All of these have effect on the design of Thai art and craft. Thailand is outstanding because you have so many skilled workers than France. Our skilled workers are slowly disappearing.
You are using the word “disappear”?
Yes, by all means disappear through business competition. So to say that the competition from China can be very frightening for Thailand because they make cheap prices. I think we can’t overlook China but still better than us, because so many French designers use manufacture from Thailand because you pay more attention to quality. I don’t think that the designing of utensils in Thailand is a work of a design but more toward decorating and it is more to beauty than function. I also think that Thailand is lacking on creativity. Of course, it is nice and beautiful but it didn’t create anything new at all.
The thing that we are lacking is quite serious.
It is necessary. Like in Europe, many companies are on the edge of going out of business. The only way out for them is to create new things. For example, there is one famous porcelain company; they must find a new way to make porcelain to create the difference in the market. They have a new technique by using a silicone mould and pour powder clay into it by using high pressure to create a piece of porcelain. This is a breakthrough innovation and not just designing a product but creating a new technology. Therefore, many designers are using this technique to continuously to make new things. I think Thailand can go further because you are competent and have the skills. You have traditions and long history. You have the story to tell because if you have no story to tell in your design, then there is no meaning and no interest. So you must have a story to tell to make new ideas.
We have Thai contemporary designers who also have creative ideas and hold world prizes. Do you know any Thai designer?
Actually I know one designer, his name is Udom Udomsrianan. He is an amazing designer because he knows how to use local material plus the strength of the skills to create a contemporary work of art. It is interesting and it could be a new concept, but it is sad to see that Thai designers are not creative enough to come up with new concepts. I think there should be more of and utensils and tableware are easy because they are not too expensive.
This Exhibition has a mixture of many varieties such as interior designs, video, music and tableware. You also have things of the past of Thai and French. How do you combine them without having it swarmed all over the place?
When you look at it, you’ll see that the room contains different areas of display. At the center of the room, there is a huge long table displaying design product along with glass shelves on the side which contain contemporary designs of France. This is the main room. The next room is that, we have combined benjarong porcelains of the past with today’s contemporary styles. You will see a collection from Jim Thompson alongside with the 18th century utensils which are perfectly combined together. Everything in this room creates old and new atmosphere between Thailand and France. The opposite room belongs to Andrée Putman. It is very basic and simple. You will see the mankind history constantly conversing. It is like a circle of relationship. And when you enter the second room, you’ll see many designs of tableware. The third room will show you how all things are combined and you can open your thoughts to De-compart-mentalization. (Sigh and laugh)
Was it hard or easy setting up this Exhibition? Have you encountered any problem?
Well, the most difficult part was working side by side with the artist who designed this show. But it was an amazing experience and it is something different. It is a way of how we built up the feelings and atmosphere. At the same time, you didn’t think the same as them because an artist thinks like an artist and we too, like to think and want the way we wanted, right? And this is the problem but it is interesting to be able to match arts and designs. I also have to maintain my theme and try to deliver it to the viewer. Vice versa, artists always think of different ways in presenting new stuff. I think this is one of the main problems but it was a magnificent time and I don’t think that there is any problem.
You worked as a curator with many exhibitions; don’t you want to design them yourself?
Actually, I never took up designs and I was never interested. But I like to share feelings and story. I like to support people and to see how much competence they have and sometimes, pointing out things people don’t see. Even though it is a small job but you have to power to cover it with a transparency box or do something important with it. You can point out to people and tell them what history or concept lies within. Even they are ordinary things which we use everyday, like the coffee maker machine or steam pot, that no one is interested in them; I want to show how these things exist in our roots of traditions. This is what I like about being a curator.
You are the same species as Khun Jeab (Gridthiya Gaweewong- Director of Jim Thompson Museum)
Absolutely, I am the same species as Khun Jeab. I don’t want to be an artist.
How did you get started with this profession?
I graduated in the field of Cultural Management. Therefore I was trained to be a curator and from what I have learned, to manage an exhibition show and finding funds which are very useful. You have to deal with wide ranges of varieties involving creativity, graphic designs and, or products. Sometimes, we might even have to look at it on the business side as well. And this is what I like about this profession.
In the design world today, is your role important and do you have more authority in laying down the trends?
I think curator is quite important in the world of arts more than the world of designs. You have less Design Museum to compare with Art Institution. I don’t really know much curators as myself. However, design has a way of reaching out to people than arts because arts are made for people who have more than enough money to buy them. But anyone can also buy a piece of a design. The work design is a direct contact with the media and it is different than arts. An art has to go through an Institution which is curator.
Is the price of a design work reasonable?
That is correct and it is a democracy and it is something we can use in everyday life. Therefore you can see the difference and it is the reason why curator in the design world is not important as in the world arts. But in the past 2-3 years, there are many new design curators and everything is changing because of bonds of relationship growing strongly between arts and designs.
We like your reasons on being a show organizer and just happen to know that is also a democracy.
I think so, because I am obsessed with product design and its material and story. I am not a collector but when I buy something, I use emotion and feeling and I love the products that I have bought. It’s kind of a special feeling, even though it’s cheap. I remembered in Bordeaux, I bought a small ceramic plate. I bought it because I love it. There is no reason and it is one of the pieces that I like best and it’s beautiful. Because it is filled with feelings and design can give you happiness. Arts can also give you happiness, but it is different. For me, arts have changed to be something intellectual. Today, it is has become conceptual. For products, it is something different because you can use it and that is the reason why I loved it.
Do you have anything to say to the viewers who came to this Exhibition?
Something I wanted to say is that the designing of tableware is endless and its influence has much impact on society. You can make lots of money and that’s for sure (laughing), if you made good design. I am looking for creative ideas and I think the consumer would want that. And this show is about creative ideas, but that is not all; it is also like following traditions. We can never forget the history when we create new designs. And if anyone tells me that they can create new design without having to look back to its original traits, then I must say that they are fools. It is impossible. There is always history behind every design. This is the main point and any innovation that has come from handmade or machine made is what I wanted to show to the viewer. You have to remove that barrier and pay attention to every detail around you, whether it is cooking, utensils, interior design or arts. I think it has a positive effect in your lives. That’s all.
Juicy Salif* Lemon Squeezer
Designer : Philippe Starck
The juicy salif lemon squeezer has come to represent the design culture that first sprang up in the 1980s in a way that no single designer object can rival.
It is, in turn, derided as hopelessly nonfunctional, impractical, and difficult to store and use, and yet is included in museum collections and books on design.
This strange cast-aluminum lemon juicer is the best known of several products that interior and industrial designer Philippe Starck created for ltalian manufacturer Alessi.
Starck, who is now an international design star, started his own design company, Starck Products, in 1980, and has always worked as an interior designer as well as producing industrial design and furniture. His creations are consistently off-beat, disconcerting, and challenging-they insist on a response. His product designs have frequently become cult objects in all the countries in which they have appeared and have been widely reproduced, giving him an excellent opportunity to project his view of the 'spirit of the age' into every home. He has experimented with plywood cars and designed hotels in London, New York, and the West Coast of the United States. His overriding concern is to give rein to emotion and intuition over reason, and-although he does not reject utility-he sees himself more as an artist than an engineer.
The Juicy Salif, with its inescapable wit, resembles a space-age spider, standing on its three long legs and directing the flow of juice downward into the glass from its cone-shaped body. Starck' s lemon squeezer has become the epitome of the designer items of the 1980s till today, which were style statements as well as indicators of the status of the owner, in a competitively fashion-conscious era.
